Losing Oil

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Kushog

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I have noticed that the before I took my truck in for the last oil change the level was down to the add spot. I have driven about 2500km sonce my last oil change and the oil has dropped a 1/4 of the way down the dip stick. I called the dealership to make an appointment and have them look into it and was told by the service adviser that this is normal. I check my oil regularly and this is the first time that my oil level dropped. The adviser did say that there is a bulletin on this and that he will see if it applies to my truck. Is it normal for the oil level to drop?
Rick
 
It is a 2008 Sierra CrewCab with the 5.3ltr motor.
Rick
 
The reason oil goes down is evaporation. Its normal to consume some oil.

Volatization is a term used to describe what happens to a fluid when it is heated to the point it begins to "boil off." Upon reaching a certain temperature, oil will begin to lose some of its lighter weight molecules as they vaporize and leave heavier weight molecules behind. Not only does this cause higher oil consumption, it causes increased viscosity, making the oil more difficult to circulate through the lubrication system. The thicker oil left behind after volatization contributes to damaging deposits, sticky piston rings and oil blow-by, all of which contribute to reduced engine life, reduced fuel economy and increased air pollution.

At one time it was not uncommon for typical conventional oils to experience 20-30 percent boil-off in the NOACK Volatility Test. Today’s API standard for SM and SN oils is 15 percent, putting greater demands on oil manufacturers. Premium synthetic oils are significantly more resistant to these effects, with some of the best in the 4.5 to 6 percent range.

Some popular oils are right at the 14-15% limits. So if you have 6 qts of oil its perfectly within spec's for 1 qt boil off between oil changes. I think GM considers a 1 qt every 1,000 to 1,500 miles NORMAL. When it come to oil you really get what you pay for especially if you take to a quick lube place. Many people think oil is oil but they could not be further from the truth. Lots of sub-standard oils out there in the market place.
 
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About 12,000-15,000 miles a year with the truck, about 7,500 in the CTS4 (it gets parked in the winter months).

I use 100% Synthetic 0W-30 in both vehicles. In have used synthetic oil for over 20 yrs, never use anything else. My Cadillac came factory filled with synthetic oil.

I switched the truck over to synthetic oil at 1,000 miles and it now has nearly 18,000 and the oil has not dropped at all. As a matter of fact the truck has all the lubes as synthetic, I had the trans, transfer case and both axles switched over at about the same time, 1000 miles. Although I don't keep my vehicles forever, someone in the family usually ends up with them so it pays to take care of them.

Mike
2010 GMC Sierra SLT ECSB Z71 All Terrain
2009 Cadillac CTS4 AWD Performance Sedan
 
Z15 what would be the difference between the 5W30 recommended by GM and 0W-30 that you use? Would warranty be voided if the same weight of oil is not used?
 
No

0W-30 is better for cold weather starting and if you look in the owners manual it even recommends it.

The lower the number the easier it flows to critical engine parts at start up. Ford uses 5W-20 and Toyota and Honda both recommend 0W-20.

from a 2008 owners manual, GM is telling you synthetic oil is better for your engine
If you are in an area of extreme cold, where
the temperature falls below −20°F (−29°C), it is
recommended that you use either an SAE 5W-30
synthetic oil or an SAE 0W-30 oil. Both provide
easier cold starting and better protection for the
engine at extremely low temperatures.
Click to expand...



Most oils on the shelves today are "Multigrades", which simply means that the oil falls into 2 viscosity grades (i.e. 5w-30 etc)

The “W” in 5W-30 motor oil stands for “winter” and means that the oil meets or exceeds certain criteria for good low-temperature performance. Oil with SAE viscosity grade 5W-30 will behave like an SAE 30 oil at high temperatures and SAE 0W oil at low temperatures, providing the necessary fluidity for rapid starts and efficient engine operation at low temperatures. So a 0W-30 and a 5W-30 are the same at engine operating temps, the 0W is just faster flowing when cold and will have a lower pour point such as the one I use at -51C (-60F).
 
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Z15 thank you for all your help. Looks like i will be going the Amsoil way. Now i have to find where i can buy some and make the switch. I will need the buy the oil and the cleaner to put in the engine before i do the switch. Thanks once again.
Rick
 
You can order it right from the web site On Line Store if you live in the USA or Canada.

Tip - Look on the left side of the page and click on Preferred Customers Save! for discount pricing options..

my GMC
MVC-004X-1.jpg
 
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Kushog said:
I have noticed that the before I took my truck in for the last oil change the level was down to the add spot. I have driven about 2500km sonce my last oil change and the oil has dropped a 1/4 of the way down the dip stick. I called the dealership to make an appointment and have them look into it and was told by the service adviser that this is normal. I check my oil regularly and this is the first time that my oil level dropped. The adviser did say that there is a bulletin on this and that he will see if it applies to my truck. Is it normal for the oil level to drop?
Rick
Click to expand...

The issue is recently being attributed to oil buildup on the walls of the de-activated cylinders due to continual oil spraying as these cylinders cool slightly, and this build-up then eventually leads to oil passing by the rings into the combustion chamber.

The 5.3's were made that the specs for them were to be so fuel efficient that they had made the pistons themselves with very short skirts and they fit so loosely, when taking them out they would just fall right out. This also didnt allow the rings to seat in the cylinder walls.

Most dealership also suggested that before replacing my internal parts (Pistons and rings) that they would like to disable the Displacement On Demand (8cyl. and 4Cyl. Mode). They have noticed that when the truck is in V8 mode that there is no oil consumption. It is believed to be that when the truck goes into 4 cyl. mode it leaves oil on top of the pistions. Once it kicks into v8 mode that oil is shot rigt out of the valves causing the oil consumption without the blue smoke.

Molson02536 ;)

#10-06-01-008A: Engine Oil Consumption on Aluminum Block Engines with Active Fuel Management (AFM) ( Install AFM Oil Deflector and Clean Carbon from Cylinder) - (Sep 28, 2010)


Subject: Engine Oil Consumption on Aluminum Block Engines with Active Fuel Management (AFM) (Install AFM Oil Deflector and Clean Carbon from Cylinder)


Models: 2007-2008 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT

2007-2008 Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado 1500, Suburban, Tahoe

2007-2008 GMC Sierra 1500, Sierra Denali, Yukon, Yukon XL, Yukon Denali, Yukon Denali XL

2008 Pontiac G8 GT

Equipped with Aluminum Block V8 Engine with Active Fuel Management (AFM) (RPOs LC9, LH6, L76, LFA, L92)

with Greater than 45,000 km (28,000 mi)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This bulletin is being revised to update the Condition/Cause/Correction sections, add 4WD labor time and add information about replacement of spark plugs if necessary. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 10-06-01-008 (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Condition
Some customers may comment about engine oil consumption of vehicles with higher mileage (approximately 48,000 to 64,000 km (30,000 to 40,000 mi). Verify that the induction system is assembled correctly and that there is no evidence that the engine has been ingesting dirty air due to a mis-assembled induction system. Also verify that the PCV system is functioning properly. If diagnostic procedures indicate that oil consumption is piston/piston ring related, verify that oil consumption is less than 3,000 km (2,000 mi) per liter/quart. If these conditions are met and oil consumption is less than 3,000 km (2,000 mi) per liter/quart, perform the service indicated in this bulletin.

Cause
This condition may be caused by oil spray that is discharged from the AFM pressure relief valve within the crankcase. Under most driving conditions and drive cycles, the discharged oil does not cause a problem. Under certain drive cycles (extended high engine speed operation), in combination with parts at the high end of their tolerance specification, the oil spray quantity may be more than usual, resulting in excessive deposit formation in the piston ring grooves, causing increased oil consumption.

Correction
To correct this condition, perform the piston cleaning procedure as described in this document, and install a shield over the AFM pressure relief valve per the procedure outlined in this document. Monitor oil consumption after this repair to ensure oil consumption has improved to acceptable levels. If this repair does not correct the condition, it may be necessary to replace the piston assemblies (piston and rings) with new parts.

Important: It is critical in this cleaning process that the engine/fuel injector cleaner remain in the cylinders for a minimum of 2.5 hours to fully clean the components. The cleaner solution must be removed before a maximum of three hours.

Verify the oil consumption concern following Corporate Bulletin Number 01-06-01-011F. If oil consumption is found, continue on with this bulletin.
Remove the spark plugs and ensure that none of the pistons are at top dead center (TDC).
Clean the pistons by putting 118-147 ml (4-5 oz) of Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner, GM P/N 88861802 (in Canada, use 88861804), in each cylinder. Allow the material to soak for at least 2.5-3.0 hours, but no more than three hours and then remove the cleaner. A suggested method of removing the cleaner is cranking engine over. Make sure to unplug the ignition coils and fuel injector before cranking the engine over. Also make sure that the painted surfaces are covered so no damage is done.
Remove the oil pan. Refer to Oil Pan Replacement in SI.



Remove the AFM valve (1).



Install the new shield (1), GM P/N 12639759, and tighten the AFM valve to the oil pan to 28 N·m (20 lb ft).
Important: Ensure that the engine cleaner is thoroughly removed before reinstalling the spark plugs. Failure to do so may result in a hydro-lock condition.

Reinstall the spark plugs. Replace the spark plugs if necessary due to full of carbon. Refer to the parts catalog.
Reinstall the oil pan. Refer to the Oil Pan Installation procedure in SI. Replace the oil pan gasket if necessary. Refer to the parts catalog. Replace the engine oil if necessary.
Re-evaluate the oil consumption. Document on the repair order. If the oil consumption is still greater than 0.946 L (1 qt) in 3,200 km (2000 mi), replacement of the pistons and rings will be required.
Parts Information
Part Number
Description
Qty

12639759
DEFLECTOR-OIL PRESS RLF VLV (quantity of 3 per order)
1

88861802 (in Canada, use 88861804)
CLEANER, F/INJR 16 OZ LIQUID POUR (Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner)
 
Thank you very much for the replies guys. When i brought the truck in this morning for the service they were saying that it might be a leaky oil filter since the oil change was not done at the dealership. We will see the outcome later today, I will keep you posted.
Nice truck Z15.
Rick
 
This situation is aggravated by low quality oils, and by low quality I mean oils that volatilize to readily. Mineral, petroleum, dino oils that is.

That's part of the reasons for dexos1 specification, lower volatility of the oil.

What many do not know or understand is that some GM engines with variable camshaft timing and active fuel management use engine oil as a hydraulic fluid to move components within the engine. If air bubbles are in the oil or the oil has broken down because its inferior, components actuated by engine oil will not move as they were designed to, limiting engine performance and efficiency and reducing engine life. Lots of owners don't want to face the facts, oil is the life blood of your engine, don't cut any corners when it comes to choosing the right oil. Non-synthetic oils are going the way of the bias ply tires, they just cannot stand up to the complexity of modern engines.

Toyota and Honda require synthetic oil. Ford and GM require at minimum a synthetic blend (dexos1).

Synthetic-Blend Dexos
Word on the street is that Castrol has reformulated its Syntec Blend (synthetic blend) motor oil to meet Dexos specifications. If true, this would mark the first instance of a branded motor oil meeting GM's stringent specs without resorting to a full-synthetic product. Initial reports are that the new product will not significantly differ in price from current Syntec Blend products, which would be great news for lube operators trying hard to meet GM standards while encountering significant resistance from customers not willing to pay for a full synthetic oil change.

We've also heard that Shell's Pennzoil and Quaker State brands are set to launch their own synthetic-blend Dexos products, which would be even more good news for lube operators.

UPDATE: As you might notice from the comments section, Valvoline, too, has a synthetic-blend product that meets Dexos standards. Even better!
Click to expand...

As you can gather from this, vehicles owners refuse to use the proper oils. While they will spend $ getting the latest 'iphone' they don't want to pay a few $ more to get the better oil for a vehicle costing 300x more, they want to cut corners on oil.

Source: http://noln.blogspot.com/2011/10/synthetic-blend-dexos.html
 
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Well I just came back from the dealership and they had told me that they are aware of the bulletin but they have to see for themselves how much oil my truck is losing. So they topped up the oil and said that i have to drive the truck until the oil level gets to the add mark and then they will see how many kms I drove.. At that point will they tell me if I have a problem with my truck burning oil and if they will do what the bulletin says to do. If I just go and put synthetic in it will that stop the oil lose?
Rick
 
You must be in Canada to find dealers open today?

That's hard to say if the synthetic will stop the oil consumption because so far you are assuming you have a oil consumption problem. Like was said, some oil consumption is normal.

I am afraid it will take a while for them to be convinced you have a problem. Some guys who have had oil consumption problems report it took very long for the dealer to be convinced the engine was consuming oil, many miles and months depending on the use of the vehicle.


How many miles on your truck?


#01-06-01-011F: Information on Engine Oil Consumption Guidelines - (Jan 13, 2009)

Subject: Information on Engine Oil Consumption Guidelines

Models: 2009 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Gasoline-Powered Light Duty Trucks Under 8500 LB GVW (Including Saturn)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This bulletin is being revised to update the warranty information on vehicles and add model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-06-01-011E (Section 06 -- Engine/Propulsion System).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All engines require oil to lubricate and protect the load bearing and internal moving parts from wear including cylinder walls, pistons and piston rings. When a piston moves down its cylinder, a thin film of oil is left on the cylinder wall. During the power stroke, part of this oil layer is consumed in the combustion process. As a result, varying rates of oil consumption are accepted as normal in all engines.

Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles referenced is 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi).

Important: This rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under warranty, that are driven in a non-aggressive manner and maintained in accordance with the appropriate maintenance schedule, with less than 58,000 km (36,000 mi), or driven at legal speeds in an unloaded (for trucks) condition.

Important: This rate does not apply to vehicles that are driven in an aggressive manner, at high RPM, high speeds, or in a loaded condition (for trucks). Oil consumption for vehicles driven under these conditions will be more.

Many factors can affect a customer's concern with oil consumption. Driving habits and vehicle maintenance vary from owner to owner. Thoroughly evaluate each case before deciding whether the vehicle in question has abnormal engine oil consumption.

Gasket and External Leaks
Inspect the oil pan and engine covers for leakage due to over-tightened, damaged, or out of place gaskets. Inspect oil lines and fittings for signs of leakage.

Improper Reading of the Oil Level Indicator (Dipstick)
Verify that the dipstick tube is fully seated in the block. When checking the oil level, make sure the dipstick is wiped clean before taking an oil level reading and fully depress the dipstick until the shoulder bottoms out on the dipstick tube. The dipstick should be the proper part number for the engine/vehicle that is being checked.

Notice: Operating your vehicle with an oil level that is below the minimum level indicated on the engine oil dipstick can result in severe engine damage. Repairs resulting from operating an engine with insufficient oil are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.

Important: Refer to Owner Manual in SI for checking and adding engine oil.

Not Waiting Long Enough After Running Engine to Check Oil Level
Some engines require more time than others for the oil to drain back into the crankcase. To assure a sufficient amount of oil has drained back to the crankcase, and an accurate reading can be obtained, the vehicle should be allowed to sit for at least 15 minutes, after the engine has been shut off, before taking an oil level reading. In order to ensure accurate results, the temperature of the oil should be close to the same temperature as the last time the oil level was checked.

Important: This does not apply to 2006-2009 Corvette Z06 equipped with the 7.0L LS7 and the 2009 Corvette ZR-1 with the 6.2L LS9 engines (dry sump). Follow the instructions in the Owner Manual for checking the oil in this application.

Improper Oil Fill After an Oil Change
Following an oil change, verify that the proper amount and type of oil was put in the engine and that the oil level on the dipstick is not above the full mark or below the add marks. Refer to the Owner Manual or Service Manual for information on recommended oil quantity, viscosity, and quality.

Aggressive Driving, High Speed or High RPM Driving
Aggressive driving and/or continuous driving at high speeds/high RPMs will increase oil consumption. Because this may not always be an everyday occurrence, it is hard to determine exactly how much the oil economy will be affected.

A higher rate of oil consumption is normal for vehicles equipped with manual transmissions that are driven aggressively. By "aggressive," we mean operation at high RPM (3,000 RPM to redline), with frequent use of engine braking (using the engine to slow the vehicle). Vehicles that are driven aggressively may consume engine oil at a rate of up to 0.946 L (1 quart) every 805 km (500 mi). This is normal for a vehicle that is driven aggressively. No repair is necessary. This characteristic does, however, require the owner to check the engine oil level at sufficiently frequent intervals, especially when driving aggressively, to assure the oil level remains within the recommended operating range. As the Owner’s Manual recommends, you should check the oil level every time you get fuel.

Towing or Heavy Usage
Towing a trailer will increase oil consumption and may cause oil consumption to fall below the normal accepted rate referenced in this bulletin for an unloaded vehicle in a personal use application. Large frontal area trailers will further increase the work required from the engine, especially at highway speeds, and thus increases the rate of oil consumption.

Crankcase Ventilation System
Verify that the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system is operating properly. Blockages, restrictions, or damage to the PCV system can result in increased oil use.

Oil Dilution (Fuel and Water)
On vehicles that are usually driven short distances, less than 8 km (5 mi), especially in colder weather, unburned fuel and condensation generated from cold engine operation may not get hot enough to evaporate out of the oil. When this occurs, the dipstick may indicate that the oil level is over-full. Subsequent driving on a trip of sufficient length to enable normal engine operating temperature for 30 minutes or more, in order to vaporize excess moisture and fuel, may give the customer the impression of excessive oil consumption.

Engine Temperature
If an engine is run at overheated temperatures (see Owner's Manual or Service Manual) for more than brief periods, oil will oxidize at a faster than normal rate. In addition, gaskets may distort, piston rings may stick, and excessive wear may result. Verify that all cooling system components are in proper working order.

Engine Wear
Piston scuffing, excessive piston-to-wall clearance, tapered or out of round cylinders, worn, damaged or improperly installed valve guides, seals and piston rings will all cause an increase in oil consumption.

Measurement of Oil Consumption
Engines require a period of time to BREAK IN so that moving parts are properly seated. Therefore, oil economy should not be tested until the vehicle has accumulated at least 6400 km (4000 mi). An exception would be allowed only if an engine is reported to be using more than 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 1600 km (1000 mi).

Verify that the engine has no external leaks. Repair as necessary.
Verify that the engine is at normal operating temperature (see Owner's Manual or Service Manual).
Park the vehicle on a level surface.
Wait at least 15 minutes, after the engine is shut off, before checking the oil level to make sure that the oil has had time to drain back into the crankcase.
Verify that the oil level is at, but not above, the full mark on the dipstick, and that the proper viscosity and quality oil are being used as recommended in the Owner's Manual.
Record the vehicle mileage, date, and exact oil level on the form included in this bulletin.
Ask the customer to verify the oil level, each time the vehicle is fueled, following steps 1-6 and return the vehicle to the dealership if the oil level is found at or below the add mark, 0.946 liter (1 qt) low. If the oil level remains above the add mark, the customer should continue to operate the vehicle and verify the engine oil level until 3200 km (2000 mi) has accumulated before returning to the dealership for a final evaluation.
If the final evaluation shows that the engine uses more than 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi), follow the published symptom diagnostics as described in the appropriate Service Manual. If the oil consumption test shows that the engine uses less than 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi), explain to the customer that their engine meets the guidelines for oil consumption.

Oil Economy Test -- Data Sheet

Dealer Name: _________________________________

Customer Name: _________________________________

Phone: (___)____-_______ Phone: (___)____-_______

VIN: ____________________________

Oil Type Used: ____________________

R.O. #: ___________________

Step
Date
Mileage
Oil Level
Driving Conditions

(City, Highway, Both)
Click to expand...
 
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I have 93917 kms on my truck. According to what I just read, it doesn't look like it will be covered. They also told me they fixed the vibration on my truck and that it was the dual exhaust touching the spare tire and thats what caused my vibration and that they fixed it. They told me they moved the exhaust so that it wont touch the exhaust and cause the vibration, by the time I drove home (approx 1km) and looked under the truck the exhaust was touching the spare tire like it was before, it must say on my forehead that i am stupid or dont understand english and that is why I absolutely hate going to the dealerships. Then they wonder why GM went bankrupt, very bad customer service.
 
Just got the truck back yesterday and they did the work that was outlined in the bulletin. Now we'll see if this fixes the problem.
Rick
 
Just wondering if the dealership was able to fix the oil loss problem. I am having the same issue with my 08 gmc. Losing around 2.5 Ltrs between oil changes. Truck has 191k on it.
 
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